I have a family member who will be going on probation for the next year or so (non-violent crime, nothing too bad). I have been told, secondhand thus far, that a condition of their probation is that there cannot be any firearms in the home.
If anyone has any knowledge about this, or PA laws concerning probation, please let me know. I own quite a few firearms, and it would become a severe inconvenience if I had to store them off the property.
Thanks in advance.
If the firearms are not owned by the individual on probation, you should be ok if you secure all of them so that the individual on probation cannot access them. This is basically the same thing you would do if your spouse was a prohibited person, but you wished to own/use firearms.
Have any details as to what would qualify as 'inaccessible'? Firearms include daily carry sidearms, HD shotguns, as well as collector longarms and handguns. So would having my sidearm on my hip be accessible or inaccessible? Can I put a lock on a door, and keep them in a room that the person does not enter, or do they have to be put into a safe? Do they have to have trigger/chamber locks?
Sorry for lots of questions, but this just hit today, and I'm trying to get a situation figured out as quickly as possible.
One of the lawyers will likely be showing up here pretty soon, but I'd like to jump in and point out that you should lean more toward over-protecting your weapons than anything as flimsy as a simple locked room. Because if there's an issue later on, you will be trying to convince someone that you really did make an honest attempt to secure them against unlawful use to the best of your ability and means. Your own ltcf status could very well be at risk should you under-protect. If you do go the room route, it's probably more convincing if you did stuff that made it secure, not just locked. Like spring hinges that will close the door for you and extra anchoring into the wall studs of those hinges so they can't be busted without a real battering ram. And google for keypad locks so it all doesn't come down to something as simple as snatching the key off of your keyring where it hangs next to the door, or somesuch. Not to mention the windows of that room. Be more protected than you think you have to be, just to be safe.
I doubt I'll need anything quite that serious, just enough to satisfy any legal requirements. There isn't any sort of trust issue between the probate and myself, as he has had open access to all my guns for years.
Aren't probation officers allowed to survey the areas around the probie? I mean, in accordance with ensuring that all the required elements of the probation are being followed? And, wouldn't that probation officer be very much able to blow the whistle and end the probate's freedom because they weren't convinced the guns were secure? Hope your family member's probation officer isn't a serious hardass. That's the type of thing I am talking about when I say you need to convince someone, not necessarily in court either. If the Prob Officer thinks it's a bad scene, a judge could just go with that officer's recommendation, and good luck getting probation back on the table.
(05-03-2010 06:27 PM)Signmaker Wrote: [ -> ]Have any details as to what would qualify as 'inaccessible'? Firearms include daily carry sidearms, HD shotguns, as well as collector longarms and handguns. So would having my sidearm on my hip be accessible or inaccessible? Can I put a lock on a door, and keep them in a room that the person does not enter, or do they have to be put into a safe? Do they have to have trigger/chamber locks?
Sorry for lots of questions, but this just hit today, and I'm trying to get a situation figured out as quickly as possible.
There is no legal definition that I'm aware of to indicate what measures are "enough". IMO, a securely locked room is the same as a locked safe. The firearm on your person is a very good question. I'd love to hear an attorney's opinion on that question.
I'm assuming that having the probate find a new living arrangement is not being considered?
(05-03-2010 07:39 PM)JayG23 Wrote: [ -> ]That's the type of thing I am talking about when I say you need to convince someone, not necessarily in court either.
Ah, gotcha now. Actually going to try and set up a meeting with the PO, and see if anything can be done. I doubt they will be too much of a hardass, considering the details of this case (sorry, cant divulge too much online).
(05-03-2010 07:57 PM)gnbrotz Wrote: [ -> ]I'm assuming that having the probate find a new living arrangement is not being considered?
Unfortunately, that's not an option right now, as neither I nor the probate have the means to change residence.
I tried researching what I could online, and I found something saying that probation for a felony prevents firearms being present, as well as a violent or weapons related misdemeanor, but not for a non-violent misdemeanor (which this is).
(05-03-2010 11:43 PM)Signmaker Wrote: [ -> ]Ah, gotcha now. Actually going to try and set up a meeting with the PO, and see if anything can be done. I doubt they will be too much of a hardass, considering the details of this case (sorry, cant divulge too much online).
I'm sure others will chime in, as well, but
never ask the police for legal advice. Simply put, their job isn't to know all of the laws. Recently, I had a friend get hit with a PFA (which states "no guns"), but a cop told him that he could keep his handgun as long as it was for target practice.
(05-04-2010 08:46 AM)Paradigm Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure others will chime in, as well, but never ask the police for legal advice.
Wasn't about to ask LEOs for legal advice, nor the PO for letter of the law. Researching on my own (including asking here), to find out what can be arranged under the letter of the law (for example, a gun safe, or locked room). Once I have that, I plan to approach the PO, and find out where their discretion lies. If they sign off on a less drastic solution (example, leaving things where they are), I will go with that. At least that way, I know how bad it has to be, and can only work up from there.
My problem is, I seem to be falling short on finding a hard and fast ruling on the issue. Should be seeing some paperwork that the probate received tomorrow, so hopefully some solutions exist there.
(05-05-2010 12:56 AM)Signmaker Wrote: [ -> ]My problem is, I seem to be falling short on finding a hard and fast ruling on the issue.
I really don't expect you to, and ultimately that's a good thing.
A hard and fast ruling, by a court or legislation, is only as valuable as the sort of availabilities and capabilities of the time when the ruling was made. A hard and fast benchmark from a decade ago won't take fingerprint readers into account, for one. It's not at all hard to equip a door with a cardswipe lock, or an electronic keypad. A court ruling depends on the hope that the judge who made it had a thorough understanding of all the methods but is still obsolete upon arrival and can't take differences of scenario for other very different cases both near and several states away.
You'll be working to show that it is secure for your situation, and how much you trust the probate is not a factor here. The bar you are trying to hurdle is that the guns are as secure in your home as they would be off the property. Sure, it would be an inconvenience to store them off property, but the probation officer doesn't have to care a damn about how inconvenienced you are. A probation officer who was flatly blunt might tell you to get the guns out and if you don't like the law to call the whaaaa-mbulance and go cry to a judge.
I encourage you to do this job right, in a good-faith attempt, do not lowball the requirements, or don't bother at all.
Was on probation for a year, my father had firearms in the home. As long as they are not sitting out in plain sight the PO can not go looking for them and you will be fine.