Pa. Open Carry ~Responsible carry, in the open.

overall, nice conversation despite the initial accusative ranting.

The officer who called me back was the first person I've spoke with in Philly who knows the law. His views in regards to open carry are ill, as his views how police officers should act. His first remark were while open carry is lawful in PA, a licensed is required to open carry in Philly.

I was told the typical views as to why I should conceal carry and not open carry. He did go over the UFA stating where open carry is lawful. He dis start the conversation with accusations how I'm a person who favors lawsuits, causing a ruckus, and/or is trying to be in-your-face about firearms. I was told about Mrs. Hain and how her husband shot her after the whole ruckus caused. He mentioned a couple other incidents in PA. After the ranting on his part, the conversation turned rather logical.

The whole conversation was in totally, odd yet thought provoking. He is perhaps the most sound officer(after the accusative ranting) I've ever spoke with in the state of Pennsylvania, I was rather shocked. I told him it's unfortunate he can't be copied and placed in other positions.

He recommended I visit paopencarry.org, which was rather odd hearing the domain name being spoken. I don't consider paopencarry to be the first domain to appear in the mind of another.

Below were some summarized thoughts from the officer, you may agree or disagree. I recognized the mindset of the officer as military-like. I've a feeling he was in the military after making the comment, "I'd just like to finish my tour." I was rather shocked at the comment. My own thoughts which I did not ask, " Do Philly police officers really have the mindset like soldiers in the sandbox?"

Please don't quote the summaries below. While I tried to provide the totality of the conversation, I may have summarized in a way which gives a biased opinion.
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- If you're carrying in a City of First Class like Philadelphia, where officers are targets each day, expect to be harassed. If you choose to open carry, don't be surprised if you're on the ground, disarmed and or tazed for open carrying.

- You have to remember officers are killed here. There were 8 officer deaths in the past 2 years here in Philly. The moment you put on the badge is the moment you become a target.

- There's a big difference between town cops and metro cops regarding the mindset. I've a 2 year old at home, which I'd like to come back to at the end of the day. If I've a choice between 3 days off due to an complaint over an unlawful action on my part, then that's 3 days home with my daughter. I'll take the investigatory complaint over being put in a coffin.

-You have to understand officers are killed here. One officer killed while signing a log book, it's not a place which an officer can relax when they see someone open carrying a holstered handgun.

- I recommend you spend $25 on a permit to conceal the firearm, to evade any hassle or becoming a target.

- There's a big difference between small town cops and metro cops. Small town cops may be fine and even be friendly about open carry.

- You may be the nicest guy in the world, but I don't know you from a can of paint.

*rather long explanation here, moral is following * If you put on the badge, you have to change your mentally if you're used to being in small towns. Here in Philly you have people who would shoot at cops, a person must be prepared for the worst. Of course there are rules, police can't just beat you in the head, shoot you, or cause bodily harm.

- Why would you want to even open carry in a City of First Class, such an act sound rather foolish. You stated the possibility of relocating to PA in Pittsburgh or Philly, are you expecting not to be harassed? Sir, you're asking for trouble.

- You've gone to training, you know how quick a person can get shots off from the retention holster. Fire and Holster, Holster and fire, you've had training, you should know better.

- some officers are solo, they don't have an officer to back them up. They must act independently where their safety is priority. Some cars have two officers and at othertimes just one.

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We talked about boundaries in law enforcement between Philly and the surrounding areas, radio communication, and he finished up with, "You should spend the $25 and get a permit to conceal carry."


My own thoughts after the conversation - these are rather random
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hypothetically, if someone wanted to kill me in a large city, they can use a scope to shoot me at 1100 yards. I'd think being in a large city, there is a possibility of less wind due to buildings, making such a shot possible. Someone could shoot me from a rooftop as well, so why worry about someone carrying a handgun in a nice fashion?

Bringing more risk to myself by open carrying in philly, unsure.

Bringing more risk to myself by open carrying in Pittsburgh? from what, drunks on the south side? gang bangers in oakland? *thinks of person who yelled a vulgarity behind his back when open carrying in Pittsburgh*

Certain times I should consider concealing even while actively open carrying, possible.

In a way, the logic is sound. All an officer has to do is present himself to a panel, have three days off, and is clear. Why risk oneself over the rights/priv(in philly) of open carry of another person?

If Philly is truly this bad, then perhaps an increase in police presence should be in order.

if Philly cops are so concerned with getting shot, they should think about:

A - getting more training for situational awareness.
B - cracking down on repeat violent offenders, instead turning them loose on the streets.
C - doing something about the school system in Philly, which are among the lowest scoring in PA, and nationwide.
D - doing something about unemployment.
E - not harassing law abiding citizens, who are less likely to shoot at police who continually harass them.

there's a reason the Philly PD are constantly being shot at, and it's not because they're unlucky, or that Philly has a higher rate of cop killers than other cities. in plain English, it's their own goddamn fault. when you have a number of cops who publicly state they'd "put two in the melon" of anyone they saw open carrying, or say it's unfortunate that "people have the right to have guns," it's pretty clear where the problem is.

so, fuck you, Philly PD. stop acting like gangbangers with badges, and you might see a drop in the number of dead cops you have.

(05-03-2010 02:26 PM)jahwarrior72 Wrote: [ -> ]if Philly cops are so concerned with getting shot, they should think about:

A - getting more training for situational awareness.
B - cracking down on repeat violent offenders, instead turning them loose on the streets.
C - doing something about the school system in Philly, which are among the lowest scoring in PA, and nationwide.
D - doing something about unemployment.
E - not harassing law abiding citizens, who are less likely to shoot at police who continually harass them.

there's a reason the Philly PD are constantly being shot at, and it's not because they're unlucky, or that Philly has a higher rate of cop killers than other cities. in plain English, it's their own goddamn fault. when you have a number of cops who publicly state they'd "put two in the melon" of anyone they saw open carrying, or say it's unfortunate that "people have the right to have guns," it's pretty clear where the problem is.

so, fuck you, Philly PD. stop acting like gangbangers with badges, and you might see a drop in the number of dead cops you have.

Amen bro

And btw nice to see you again Jah

or, F - Move to Moskva and joint the Militia (what they call the city police in Russia).